Turning off XP loss/gain as an option?

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The game grew despite the horrible outdated game mechanic known as exp loss, not because of it. Exp loss does nothing for the game, it doesn't make it better. This is a fact.

But it clearly didn't make it worse either since the population has grown with its existence.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

It also grew only because Softcore was introduced, if this game was HC-only it would still be niche. And that's simply a fact too.

Softcore has always existed.

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Snooke#4557 wrote:

Softcore has always existed.

Really old leagues used to be separated into HC and SC versions with completely different mechanics. But its whatever, doesn't really matter. My point is that the main appeal of this game is SC Trade, and the majority of its playerbase consists of SC Trade players.

And I play SC because I don't want to lose anything on death like in HC, I play it because I don't want to delete hours of my time investment. And yet, here we are. Exp loss is forced upon all players. Its bad.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Really old leagues used to be separated into HC and SC versions with completely different mechanics. But its whatever, doesn't really matter. My point is that the main appeal of this game is SC Trade, and the majority of its playerbase consists of SC Trade players.

There was indeed a time when Softcore and Hardcore featured separate league mechanics, but that era has long since faded. As GGG grew in both resources and ambition, the focus shifted toward developing fully realized leagues rather than small, isolated mechanics.

Even during those earlier periods, Softcore already had a death penalty, and for good reason, it maintained a sense of consequence and balance within the game’s design.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And I play SC because I don't want to lose anything on death like in HC, I play it because I don't want to delete hours of my time investment.

You’ve chosen the appropriate mode, and rightly so, because death in Softcore does not truly strip you of anything fundamental. Your character remains intact, your items stay in your possession, and your loot is preserved unless you exhaust your portals which, notably, can happen even without dying if you repeatedly leave a map to avoid danger. In practical terms, the only meaningful loss is experience.

Even then, that loss is rarely as severe as it might seem. In typical “alch and go” mapping, there is little real investment at stake compared to heavily juiced maps where players commit substantial currency and risk far more with underprepared builds. In an ordinary scenario, a single mistake leading to death might cost you ten percent experience, but even at level ninety nine this is hardly catastrophic. In fact, that ten percent is roughly the equivalent of three to four maps in today’s pace, which translates to, what, maybe ten minutes of playtime at most. Hardly a meaningful setback.

Progress in this game is multifaceted. You are still acquiring loot, advancing your Atlas, completing challenges, and, ideally, enjoying the experience itself. That lost experience is often recovered quickly enough that it barely disrupts your momentum.

If deaths become frequent, the situation still isn’t one of total loss. You continue to gain something, whether tangible rewards or the clear signal that your current build or strategy is not suited for the content you are attempting. In that sense, the game is consistently communicating with you, offering that familiar pat on the shoulder while also nudging you to adapt. Experience loss on death is not an arbitrary punishment imposed by the system, but rather a consequence that players can mitigate through better preparation and decision making. This principle exists across every game, including Diablo 4. lol

From this perspective, responsibility ultimately rests with the player. If nothing is gained during play, whether experience, loot, enjoyment, or progression, it is rarely the system alone at fault. The game provides constant feedback, effectively saying, “here’s a gentle pat on the shoulder, you are not quite ready for this content, dial it back or accept the penalty.” If that guidance is ignored, there is little more the system can do.

That said, there is an argument to be made that the current death penalty has grown too lenient. A ten percent experience loss in modern PoE can feel outdated given the game’s current scale and player power. A harsher penalty, perhaps scaling to 50% or even higher beyond level ninety, or introducing the possibility of deleveling, could restore a stronger sense of consequence. Such changes would certainly be controversial, but they would also reintroduce a level of tension and weight that some players feel the game has gradually lost.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The game grew despite the horrible outdated game mechanic known as exp loss, not because of it.

Much like the rest of this post, this statement is utterly absurd. The exp penalty is a foundational and fundamental part of the basic game loop that makes PoE what it is. And that game loop is SMALL.

Create a character --> kill monsters ---> survive -----> grow and collect loot
Create a character ---> kill monsters ---> die -----> lose exp or progress or items ----> tweak character ------> repeat and survive and grow.

To claim that the game grew despite one of these foundational elements to the game loop is the same as making the argument that any one of them could be exactly the same:
"The game grew despite the fact you have to kill monsters to level up"
"The game grew despite the fact that you have to collect randomized loot"
"The game grew despite the fact that you have to create a character and deal with the passive tree".
Unless you happen to have even a shred of data to support the wild claim you just made, which you don't.....it's just "I'm right, I know I'm right, objective fact, nothing you say matters"

I'll repeat: utterly absurd. Ever wonder why, out of all the possible elements of the game, DEATH PENALTY was the one that received its own game mode first? That is precisely how important what happens on death is to the function and foundation of the game.

Nah exp is not fundamental or important to this game, and nothing will ever convince me otherwise. Leveling is also way too slow, I don't even get 1% exp per map at lvl99 which is absurd in itself. That's the whole reason exp loss feels bad, because its hours upon hours of my alch&go mapping deleted on death. Leveling should not be boring like it is now, it should be fun.
Games should be fun,not pointlessly punishing for no reason whatsoever.

Right now my only options for leveling past 98-99 are: run Sanctum all day, or pay someone enough divines to carry me to lvl100. Too lazy to even join carry groups anymore, cuz the game simply loses all my interest and attention far too quickly now because it doesn't want me to play apparently. And that's fine, I will keep quitting early after speedrunning my 40/40 every league until the game improves to be more casual-friendly.

Its my exp. That I earned. The game has no right to steal it from me. Ever. Exp on death is the most ridiculous game mechanic I have ever seen in my life ever in any game. "Game telling you your build sucks/you should improve" is just elitist nonsense to me, all it does is drain you of all motivation.

And so I'll keep giving my feedback about how pointless and bad exp loss is, in every thread that pops up about it until this clear issue is fixed in the game.

Just like how T17s were fixed so now I can corpse-rush all the bosses with Stability Scarab all I want. Just like how they removed exp loss in pinnacle bosses. Just like how they added a literal Auction House.


You want exp loss? Then just opt into it. It should be optional, not forced onto all players. That's why it sucks, because everyone has to play with this bad mechanic. Its like if the whole game was made to be SSF only, rip most of the playerbase if that happens.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Games should be fun,not pointlessly punishing for no reason whatsoever.

Then let uss set aside every single argument that has ever taken place on these forums.

Fun is subjective and entirely within your control. YOU have chosen to continue playing PoE. Obviously you find it fun. If you don't.......go away and find another game. Please.

If nothing will convince you otherwise, then trust YOURSELF....and leave. You are always right, so listen to yourself. Listen to what you are writing in these threads. Listen to all the things you have written across multiple years in these forums. Find another game that IS fun (for you).

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Leveling is also way too slow, I don't even get 1% exp per map at lvl99 which is absurd in itself.

You’re not really engaging with the endgame beyond alc & go, which explains the slow xp gain. Even at a sluggish 1% per map and 5 minutes per run, level 100 is done under 9 hours, already quite fast compared to how it used to be.

If you actually engage with the endgame, you could finish in just a few hours. Play and engage with the game, get rewarded, win, it's that simple lol.
Rely on carries and avoid the game’s systems, and progress will feel stall and slow. If you’re not having fun, it’s not the xp lose, it’s that you’re avoiding the parts of the game that would actually get you where you want to be.

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You want exp loss? Then just opt into it. It should be optional, not forced onto all players.

They’re not going to add a baby mode below SC without an XP penalty, and they’re not going to remove it either as it’s a core feature of the game.
If you don’t like it, you can already opt out like you want, just play a different game, instead of expecting this one to bend to your preferences.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

Find another game that IS fun (for you).

The only reason I even comment on exp loss threads is because I want the game to be more fun for me. I want it to change in a specific way and direction, that's what feedback basically is. Complaining about stuff and hoping the devs fix it.

And so I just give my feedback about how much I don't like exp loss on death, because I don't like it. Its as simple as that. There's no other reason except me wanting to enjoy the game more in my own way, and exp loss gets in the way of my fun.

I do find other games, and enjoy them. That's why I always quit by the end of week 1 maximum every league, because I have no reason to play when there is literally no progression for me to gain because the game decides to gatekeep it all behind some arbitrary punishment for dying for no reason.

I would play a bit more until I passively reach lvl100 with 0 risk of losing a single point of experience, nice and comfy in the content I enjoy in my alch&go maps where I block almost all league mechanics and click strongboxes. But the game just doesn't allow that for no reason.

Well then the only choice left to me is to just quit and keep giving my feedback until the game improves.

Its too bad really, simply deleting exp loss would be the freeest W for this game ever, and would boost retention instantly. I'd play way more knowing that my exp, that I earned, cannot be stolen away from me by the game.

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cowmoo275#3095 wrote:

"

Games should be fun,not pointlessly punishing for no reason whatsoever.

Then let uss set aside every single argument that has ever taken place on these forums.

Fun is subjective and entirely within your control. YOU have chosen to continue playing PoE. Obviously you find it fun. If you don't.......go away and find another game. Please.

If nothing will convince you otherwise, then trust YOURSELF....and leave. You are always right, so listen to yourself. Listen to what you are writing in these threads. Listen to all the things you have written across multiple years in these forums. Find another game that IS fun (for you).

You made a fair point and clearly tried to offer guidance.
That said, from a behavioral perspective, some individuals can become caught in cycles of habitual engagement and compulsive reward-seeking, similar in some ways to gambling or other addictive behaviors.

Even if a game frustrates them, it can remain one of the few consistent sources of stimulation or escape in their routine. Holding onto it, despite its “flaws“, can function as a coping mechanism rather than a contradiction.
Sometimes, we can’t help everyone, only those who are truly willing to receive help

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

That's why I always quit by the end of week 1 maximum every league

just want to leave this quote here, it speaks for itself.