Turning off XP loss/gain as an option?

Every time I play this game, it's the same thing. I get to a certain level where grinding xp takes quite a bit of time but the reward is obviously a good idea.. so I focus on it for a while.. then end up doing some other content in the most recent case the first shaper map.. then minotaur deletes 30% of my experience.. and i honestly have no idea why or what i should have done differently as there is 15 different things on the screen.. Can we admit XP loss in these conditions is a bit of a meme? Why was an hour or so of my time deleted to something I have no awareness of whether or not is dangerous for my character? Perhaps when the idea was first created as a little extra spice it made sense.. When there wasn't so many things firing around on my screen at 5 actions per second.. Idk.. just food for thought.. because every time I experience this.. I think to myself.. wow this game sucks.. which isn't true at all.. just this particular part of it does.. anyway.. having the ability to turn off xp loss/gain seems like a good idea to me.. as it's kinda shit that I have to do only boring content that I know isn't risky to level up before trying other stuff. Also I really wish I could just hide the XP bar as well.. because when I know I can't gain any having it go up and down is pretty damn annoying.. I say this with love for the game.. Not to trash anyone. Forgive the salty language.

People playing a game should not be able to opt-out of the game having a failure state.

It would have a strong negative impact on the game.

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Exiliest#5062 wrote:

Why was an hour or so of my time deleted to something I have no awareness of whether or not is dangerous for my character?

This is the important bit here.

An itemized shaper guardian map looks very different than a regular map. Shaper guardians are positioned in their own section among other bosses on the atlas. It's clearly a special area and this becomes apparent before you even open the map. You ignored this and got punished for it.

How would you change these maps to make the danger more obvious?

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Sarno#0493 wrote:

People playing a game should not be able to opt-out of the game having a failure state.

It would have a strong negative impact on the game.

The only impact it would have is allowing people to enjoy the game more, in the way that they want. What impact it has on the game is up to the individual player to decide. Asking for a toggle is a valid suggestion. And exp loss isn't a fail-state anyway, its just a "minus time" mechanic. That's why people hate it.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

The only impact it would have is allowing people to enjoy the game more, in the way that they want. What impact it has on the game is up to the individual player to decide.

The average person, given the choice, would create their character as a level 100 with their choice of expensive unique belt and whatever other equipment. If asked, they would say it is more fun.

Both company revenue and player retention would be in the toilet.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Asking for a toggle is a valid suggestion.

There are lots of valid suggestions which would, ultimately, be detrimental to the game.

Greg Street once said players are better than designers at finding problems, but very significantly inferior at finding solutions. (I cannot remember his exact way of phrasing it.) My time spent working in the industry has left me inclined to strongly agree with him on that.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

And exp loss isn't a fail-state anyway, it's just a "minus time" mechanic.

I suspect we could spend hours battling over those semantics. :)

I see your point, but I wouldn't say the distinction you're seeking to draw is objectively correct and those who say to the contrary are objectively wrong. If you are seeking to progress in the form of levelling up and the lack of a gain in level is due to an XP penalty on-death mechanic then it can definitely be useful to regard it as being either a failure state or failure state-adjacent, and I typically would not slow down a meeting to nitpick the vernacular.

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Sarno#0493 wrote:

I suspect we could spend hours battling over those semantics. :)

I mean, there's nothing to debate. Exp loss is just pointless time-wasting mechanic that is just outdated MMO design from the 2000s. The reason some online games had it back then was to maximize playtime. That's it.

I literally don't know a single other game that I've played in my whole life that had exp loss or other hardcore mechanics forced upon all players. 0.

Wanna know which game doesn't have exp loss on death and is fun? Last Epoch. I easily reached lvl99 in that game, and still kept playing anyway cus gear upgrades are the real character progression. I died lots of times in certain boss-rush maps, and was so glad I wasn't getting kicked while I was already down with extra layers of punishments like how PoE does to its players. I could just try again and again, and eventually after 1 gear upgrade and a slight respec I was able to complete this boss rush. It felt great, no exp loss needed.


Exp loss on death adds nothing, to any game. Ever. All it does is delete a player's time investment, which is why so many people complain about it. Its simply bad game design. Too much punishment, especially when its forced on everyone instead of being opt-in like Hardcore, is just horrible to have in your game. If exp loss was a toggle/gamemode that people who want it could choose, nobody would complain about it cus its optional.

You don't see me complaining that SSF is bad and boring in PoE, or that this game isn't designed around HC because of one-shots, because I don't play those modes. They are optional, how it should be.


And not only is exp loss in PoE bad, but leveling is also slow af. Getting less than 1-2% exp per alch&go map at lvl99 shouldn't even be a thing. Its the combination of the steep exp curve and exp loss making you lose tens of hours of mapping that makes people angry. Even the exp loss omen doesn't do anything for me, because I die any time I'm at 1-2% exp at lvl99 lmfao

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Wanna know which game doesn't have exp loss on death and is fun? Last Epoch.

"

We weren’t profitable with Season 1, 2, or 3 after our 1.0 launch.

-Last Epoch Game Director Judd Cobler

Source: https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/ps5-le-orobyss-follow-up-from-judd/79921

Not a great indication considering the game's fourth season has yet to launch.

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Sarno#0493 wrote:

Not a great indication considering the game's fourth season has yet to launch.

Exp loss has nothing to do with the success of a game lmao

Its not this mythical genius game design that is an integral part of PoE. Its completely unnecessary.

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Toforto#2372 wrote:

Exp loss has nothing to do with the success of a game lmao

Cool.

No reason to remove it, so.

If you cant avoid dying you dont deserve the character power that comes with a few extra levels. I personally hate games where there is almost no penalty for dying.