A little feedback about archetypes and lack thereof
" So what that "all spear skills are strike tagged."? That alone doesn't do anything. Also, putting yourself in danger by getting in close range means specializing in single target to you? Is that really your argument?? Ranged is not only better at single target and 'splash/spread', it's also safer too. There are multiple different examples for this, but i'll mention one that's super affordable and easy to set, which is the crossbow build focused on AP rounds, HV rounds and FR rounds that literally cover both bases, single target and "spread", aka AOE. " What are you trying to prove with your 'evidence'? Genuine question, what you're are trying to prove with this print? Because as a true melee build this weapon kinda sucks actually. It pushes the enemies away and it's a low level unique with low stats. I bet it can be made to work, but a regular rare spear with +skills would be infinitely better. " The entire idea of splash is just AOE at close range. Heralds is literally splash on steroids, and you can use it with any martial weapon AND skill too. " What? Stacking Herald is power creep by definition. Splash is inferior to Herald in every single way. What about this fact is so hard for you to understand? Also, i made VERY clear that i don't want splash as support. " Anyone is entitled to their own opinion, that's fine. But it really feels like you just want to be a contrarian, because you don't provide any logical and reasonable counter argument for why you're against it, combined with the fact that you're putting words in my mouth too, like saying i want splash as support. My argument is that splash isn't power creep because it's inferior to Heralds in every single imaginable way (only works on strikes, only works at close range which means that you're putting yourself in danger, and splash can't trigger multiple times at safe distance like Heralds can.) " Again, i'm not asking for splash to be a support gem. Also, weapon swap speed was also a given on the tree, anyone could've got that through unique jewels or instilled emotions, but no one did that. And now weapon swap is instant for every class. So just because something is available in the tree or somewhere else, it doesn't mean that it can't be incorporated as a default feature. Last edited by Vyend#2601 on Mar 24, 2026, 6:04:22 AM
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" There’s a lot of either/or’s in here and things I did not say I don’t want them incorporating melee splash support in poe2 Power creep increase and item nullification being the reason Just because something else has power creep doesn’t justify adding even more power creep. Power creep thing in the game + another power creep thing =\= balance Just equals more power creep. It would be like saying “well they get cast on crit comet, so we should get….” Mash the clean
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" For example what? Because i'm literally quoting what you said. You clearly implied that i wanted splash as support, here is the proof: " " " " See? " I literally never said that, it's pretty clear that you don't want that to me.. It's hard to keep the discussion when you keep saying incoherent things out of nowhere like this, it's not the first time you did that too, like how you mentioned that "all spear skills are strike tagged" before, which didn't add anything to the discussion. " Like i said before, anyone is entitled to their own opinion. That's fine. But your reason is flimsy and lacks logic. It doesn't present any real counter argument, that's the problem. I literally listed the reasons why splash isn't power creep before multiple times, but you're unable to do the same thing. You say it's power creep without any real substance to support your argument. The problem seems that you're forgetting the core issue here, which is the archetype of true melee lagging behind in comparison to ranged. When i asked you about what melee specializes in you said this: " " Which we know isn't true at all, ranged is better at both single target and AOE. "Item nullifying" doesn't apply here because what i'm trying to do is put true melee on equal footing with ranged. Also, you talk like "Item nullifying" NEVER happened before. In the case of poe 2 in specific, we've seen that with weapon swap speed. It was presented in the tree before, but now every class has it, 100% in fact. You talk like adding splash is a one-way decision, like it's immutable. They can balance Herald while adding splash, one thing isn't dependent on the other. Honestly, the problem is how Herald is broken, not splash. Last edited by Vyend#2601 on Mar 24, 2026, 7:29:08 PM
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I can't even really tell what the original feedback post was asking for and whatever's happened here has gone off the rails.
Is it that you think pursuing archetypal builds is discouraged because you feel it is non-optimal to do so? well, to get anyone onboard with that you first have to establish what you consider to be an archetype (and I mean specifically, not something vague, like "melee") and then show why you can't do it in game or why you think it's discouraged. I don't see that happening. What I do see is mostly someone who's annoyed they couldn't figure out how to build the kind of character they wanted to play or you tried and discovered it wasn't as good as someone else's different build. That doesn't mean it's impossible, it just means you haven't figured it out yet. If you want to build a bear that only uses bear skills or a poison/bleed wolf or a poison spear thrower, these things are more than possible - in fact it's encouraged to figure out how to make the build you want to play. Even most of the builds you see people post online aren't version 1.0's of their build. Pretending you need to stack awkward attributes to do certain kinds of elemental attack damage kind of makes me think you are inexperienced or coming from the perspective of a low-level character where you'd have to focus on attributes a little bit in the interim if you wanted to use lots of blue support gems straight out of the gate. If you're just here to vent, then I guess it's fine - not being able to figure out how to build the things you wanted is frustrating. I get it. If you want to solve your problems I would invite you to really define what archetypes it is that you want to play and how you want the build to look and feel when you play it rather than just write a grocery list of perceived roadblocks and annoyances you've encountered trying to do things. Many of the people here who've shown up to say "no, the thing you've complained about in your feedback isn't a real issue" would likely be very happy to help you understand why or help you build a working version of whatever archetypal build you're trying to make. Who am I to say anything, I don't respect my time either. Last edited by karsey#2995 on Mar 24, 2026, 8:45:27 PM
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" Yes you are right. Every consensually "classic" ARPG build is both doable and viable, and we have all the bricks we need. That is why there is no need to add any skill for existing weapons or support gems. The game is as good as finished in that department. It’s just me (and everyone agreeing or +1’ing) being bad and not knowledgeable enough. The bricks that support a fire archer or a poison javelin thrower or a bleed wolf are exactly as fleshed out and developed as those that support lightning sorceress and poison archer, for example. You know, even people who generally disagreed (and that’s not everyone) were able to nuance their discourse. "If you're just here to vent, then I guess it's fine" – the level of condescension, lmao. I personally think your intervention is a lazy "git gud" disguised as an elaborate argument, but that is my opinion. Thanks for bumping my thread anyway, at least you were courteous. Last edited by Kaozium#2036 on Mar 24, 2026, 10:07:24 PM
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" If goal of this topic is to make such things happen, bad news - this is utopian concept. There will always be some builds/archetypes not as fleshed as XYZ. We might as well complain about balance in general and take this conversation further than archetypes - what`s the point? Visiting build section and trying to "viable" our beloved archetype > pointless balance talks. Maybe karseys reply was salty but he made valid point about that. Also, relatively strong archetypes were referred in Your reply(again). I know, its not because they`re strong but feel complete. Maybe power and "completeness" are simply in correlation. I mean, can You name top tier build/archetype that doesn`t feel complete/-ish according to Your definition? Last edited by SalamiHaze#9389 on Mar 24, 2026, 11:29:47 PM
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" I agree with that part. I would not ask for everythingTM to be possible, it’s not realistic or even easy to define. My point is that standard, classic archetypes, at least, should be enabled. There is subjectivity in what constitutes a classic archetype, and that’s why I give a few examples, but there are other of course. " I’m not sure there is a direct causation between completeness and power. Certainly completeness favors power because you inherently have more options, so statistically more tools to find great synergies. But I don’t think it’s always necessary. I suppose some busted unique or synergy can create a build without needing too many elements. As you have gathered, I gravitate towards builds that feel complete so naturally I haven’t personally played "top tier builds" that feel incomplete. But that’s not really my point anyway, just entertaining your question. My point is that I feel we need more tools to enable classic archetypes and more elemental/status flexibility. To be honest I grow tired of people in this thread pretending we already have everything we need. It’]s dishonest. If that was the case, the devs would not add skill and support gems, yet they have added some, and we know they will add more. I am simply not convinced in the slightest by anyone saying we got all we need or want for existing weapons. Also keep in mind this thread is my feedback. It is essentially a personal perspective, and in my original post, I ask if anybody feels the same. Yet the people who disagree keep posting and posting, trying to say I’m wrong. It’s okay to disagree and just to leave the thread be. So far, I haven’t read anything convincing, just some people generally agreeing, and some people calling me a noob at build building and spending days in this thread to try and drive their point for some reason. It’s like they have to prove something at all cost to defend the game or tell everyone how good they are at making builds. Last edited by Kaozium#2036 on Mar 24, 2026, 11:46:50 PM
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Try this again, seems to be a lot of misunderstanding.
" -1 Massive unnecessary power creep and will create too many problems across melee skills, weapons, and the tree. " Splash specailized with the current system. Either you specialize it through the tree, or you have the mace. Or the example of that spear I linked. They can create more items like this as we get different archetypes (swords/axes/claws..) Specialized mechanic across melee. Not inherent. " No. Herlads arent given for free. Which you are asking for at the top of this post. So no x2. Heralds are on kill as well. Splash is regardless if you kill anything or not. So no x3 And splash is only from strike skills, heralds are not. So no x4 Melee splash is nothing like a herald. x5 Comparing the two is silly. " Didnt say all of them are. The ones that are will run into silly problems since they are tagged that way. Rapid, Rake, Whirling .... etc. Also free splash on something like Flicker? Lmfao " Nope and I have no idea where you came up with this. " Melee strike splash is nothing like a herald x ... 5? " Didnt say you did. I gave it as an example, since its one way they did it in POE1 and you ran with it. You want worse. You just want it inherent on most melee skills. Which again -1 " Indeed. I didnt say that I said: " All the ones that are strike tagged. Which would create issues by just giving these specific ones splash. See above for examples on which ones. " In a vacuum probably. Reality? Eh, a bit nuanced. As for the people on the forums for example? Nope im pretty safe to say Im way ahead of nearly everyone there and they all dont even play melee. This is coming from someone who has an actual melee character as well. Truest of them all. Dont even use a shield with how true it is Mash the clean Last edited by Mashgesture#2912 on Mar 25, 2026, 2:19:42 AM
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" How is this going to cause problems and power creep? And why these problems are immutable, and GGG will never be able to fix and balance it? " This is the proof that you don't understand what is being discussed here, splash has many limitations, it's not free value. Also, we get 100 spirit free from all the acts, not to mention the multiple ways we can increase our spirit as well. Heralds essentially don't cost anything, it's not like we need 6 active buffs.. " Yeah it's not, Heralds are much stronger, its AOE for any martial weapon that work with any type of attack unlike splash. " Literally not what i said, i always said splash for specific closed ranged skills. " "Reality? Eh, a bit nuanced" fancy way to say you agree that melee is behind ranged. " Lmao, if you think of not using a shield when i say "true melee" then you didn't understand what i was trying to say at all. You bringing Flicker Strike earlier kind of gives it away that that's the way you primarily see melee in poe 2, combine that with multiples Heralds or skills like Lunar Blessing for example and you don't have to interact with the clunky aspects of the melee experience like body collision, aiming/namelocking or hits missing/not registering. " I also played with multiple melee characters in poe2, since closed beta in fact. I've said this multiple times before but splash to me only represents 10% of what melee needs to compete with ranged. But you thinking that splash would break the game is almost funny to me, it's like the perfect representation of the poe community, the most extreme reactions to the smallest changes. This whole discussion about splash is honestly a waste of time, for both of us. If you think that splash is broken and its implementation will result in the end of the world (even if you can't really articulate why that's the case) then nothing i say will change your mind, because our views on this are the complete opposite. Last edited by Vyend#2601 on Mar 25, 2026, 5:34:58 AM
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" Last one, since you are being disingenuous and .... going back and editing posts ... to change what I say. Also just not paying attention to what is being typed at you, and this discussion is just becoming exhausting. So there was no misunderstanding it just seems you want an argument on the internet rather than bringing anything constructive to the discussion. Case in point:   " Yet you dont compare it to splash as the two dont behave at all alike. As illustrated before. Here it is again:
Spoiler
 "Was posted already. By me several times, either pay attention and read what is posted directly at you or dont reply to me. As this is just weird. You are selectively not reading what you are asking for several posts later. Its even in the reply itself. Pay attention.
Spoiler
   " Nope, just means that if you make up a scenario in your head where all things are equal sure. Which is a perfect world scenario. Taking in things from actual different players, their complaints, what they play versus me; answer changes. " Lol what? What is this 15brain correlation happening here. Literally nothing to do with one another. Thats a loss on assumptions. There goes that theory. Also disingenuous statement. Wow. "Id like to see them. Cause your ninja is currently blank  Mash the clean
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