Ideas for making Pathfinder's Master Alchemist route and Master Distiller worth selecting.

Introduction: currently, the Pathfinder ascendancy seems like a bit of a bait-and-switch. While the ascendancy's fantasy is supposed to be "flasks, with options for damage", in reality, the ineffectiveness of the master alchemist branch, coupled with the mechanical failures of master distiller, combined with her choice of only 7 nodes pigeonholes her into playing poison builds only, thereby greatly relegating her build diversity. I'll address all three nodes.

Nature's Boon currently: Your magic utility flasks have 30% increased effect.

The problem: under a very feasible condition of using one life flask (master surgeon), and just one unique flask (taste of hate, sorrow of the divine, progenesis, etc.), this node is, in aggregate, weaker than the combined flask effect bonuses of the four minor nodes. That is, 20% inc. effect of flasks applied across 5 nodes is a total of 100% increased flask effect, while 30% applied to three nodes is a total of 90%, and that's before considering the ancillary bonuses of the minor nodes. Consider this: the ascendancy centered around flasks actively avoids a node that increases effect of her flasks, because it simply doesn't do enough.

The solution: taking inspiration from the Occultist's Vile Bastion, a quick numerical buff to 40%, to apply it to all flasks (including unique flasks, most of which have been heavily nerfed from their heyday), and then to apply increases to flask effect apply to maximum life, at 50% rate. To put into perspective, the occultist gains 75% increased energy shield with capped spell block, while a Pathfinder with this node allocated, her full ascendancy, and a tides of time would get 42% increased maximum life.

Master Alchemist currently: 50% chance not to consume flask charges, remove all elemental ailments when you use a flask.

The problem: it's either redundant, or undependable. That is, once a flask hits empty because you lose the 50% roll twice in a row, that flask falls off, which is unacceptable for a class that's supposed to sustain flasks.

The solution: taking a cue from Gladiator's Determined Survivor, overwrite the values on the flasks.

"Your flasks consume 20 charges instead of their stated value. Your flasks last for eight seconds instead of their stated value. Your flask charges cannot be stolen." (Edit: this last one just for ghosted maps so PF isn't artificially screwed by Valdo's maps)

For the defensive aspect, replace the undependable ailment removal with a different niche difference.

"Your elemental resistances against damage over time are equal to your highest uncapped resistance."

Essentially, this would plug a hole with Taste of Hate, and do little else, but it enables a unique defensive setup without incurring a "but but but" corner-case Achilles Heel just because. That is, on watcher's eyes or sublime vision purity mods, the elemental damage converts damage over time damage as well, and only taste of Hate does not. I think a 4-point ascendancy node plugging this niche leak is fine.


Master Distiller currently: Consume 3 flask charges when you use a skill from the following flasks for the following bonuses. 25% elemental penetration from a bismuth flask, gain 37% of physical damage as chaos from an amethyst flask, and gain 250% increased critical strike chance from a diamond flask.

The problem: use a guard skill? Lose charges. Use a travel skill? Yep, lose charges. Use any skill besides your attack skill? Lose charges. And even if it'd work correctly to not drain charges from utility skills, flask charges on critical strike are double-gated, first by a 100 ms cooldown, and then by the fact that only one flask can gain charges from critical strikes at a time.

The solution: the salient idea with this node, in my opinion, is to enable non-chaos builds with the Pathfinder. Namely, elemental damage builds.

Proposed change: apply an additional 30 exposure on hit for each elemental resistance granted to you by flasks.

Interpretation: if you use a bismuth or a rainbow suffix on a magic flask, you apply 30 of all three elemental exposures on hit. If you use only a singular elemental resistance flask (topaz/ruby/sapphire), you only apply 30 of that singular exposure. If you use multiple flasks granting you elemental resistances, you still only apply 30 exposure (I.E. there's no stacking, just a yes/no on if you get granted that elemental resistance by a flask).

Or an even simpler but more powerful implementation would just be: "you apply an additional 30 exposure on hit while affected by a sapphire, ruby, topaz, or bismuth flask".

Ultimately, the inspiration comes from the elementalist's "mastermind of discord".

In conclusion: currently, three of Pathfinder's nodes feel very lackluster, pigeonholing her into mostly poison builds. By buffing the three less-picked nodes to feel legitimately good to pick up, this would open up more build possibilities without buffing up her pre-existing poison builds.

Discuss.

Bumping!

gotta say - good job

an actual down to earth analysis and reasonable solutions. for the first time i see a set of improvements that actually is not an auto-win with Mageblood.

the entire ascendancy lives in the shadow cast by that belt (for a good reason) and buffing it without making it obscene with Mageblood is a nice feat.

side note: i actually never considered that Master Distiller eats charges when i dash around.. the values (250% crit chance, with Diamond already giving ~200%) are kinda strong on it as-is.


my comment on Pathfinder in general:

for years all my magic flasks have 'gain 3 charges when hit'. as soon as i can afford it, i get them + belt with flask mod (either reduced consumption or increased gain).

what is strange playing as Pathfinder - i mostly play them as evasive, standoff chars - that flask management method does not work. it feels as if actually get LESS flask uptime than a tanky jugg that is hit twice per second and has its flask refilled all the time. ofc the flask effect and other perks on Pathfinder are great but that one thing always felt weird to me. note: never liked the 50% not-consumed node, precisely due to reasons you named

Yep, a mageblood setup would only be buffed by 10% inc. flask effect on nature's boon, since master alchemist is just a flask sustain node.

The big buff aspect on master alchemist is the idea of pathfinder being able to sustain very-difficult-to-sustain flasks, with increased flask effects applying to them, so that Pathfinder can once again really juice up unique flasks in ways that no other class would be able to--and considering the sorry state of unique flasks currently, it'd open up some unique playstyles available only to Pathfinder that aren't just "more poison damage!"

unique flasks are an issue on their own

there are quite a few completely broken flask: Progenesis, Oriaths, ward flasks/vaal soul flasks. If you make them EVEN stronger, they will have to be nerfed, HEAVILY. these flasks are binary in their effect - they break the game or they dont. if you raise their power over that 'breaking the game' threhshold then well, there is a problem (even if it is as niche as ward builds or perma vaal skills)


on the other hand, there are dozens of flasks nobody gives a slightest f.. because a) they do not work with Mageblood b) are weak AF and/or (hillarious) use 120 charges per click making them not reliable

such gems as Rotgut, Witchfire's Brew or Wise Oak were viable alternatives to mageblooded magics. but now? you do the gear dance to match your resists and voila - you get 'some pen and 1 end charge' worth of stats. and dont you dare to think about swapping gear, youll have to change half of your pieces

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sidtherat#1310 wrote:

unique flasks are an issue on their own

there are quite a few completely broken flask: Progenesis, Oriaths, ward flasks/vaal soul flasks. If you make them EVEN stronger, they will have to be nerfed, HEAVILY. these flasks are binary in their effect - they break the game or they dont. if you raise their power over that 'breaking the game' threhshold then well, there is a problem (even if it is as niche as ward builds or perma vaal skills)


on the other hand, there are dozens of flasks nobody gives a slightest f.. because a) they do not work with Mageblood b) are weak AF and/or (hillarious) use 120 charges per click making them not reliable

such gems as Rotgut, Witchfire's Brew or Wise Oak were viable alternatives to mageblooded magics. but now? you do the gear dance to match your resists and voila - you get 'some pen and 1 end charge' worth of stats. and dont you dare to think about swapping gear, youll have to change half of your pieces

Progen is already sustainable by Pathfinder, ditto Oriath's. Pathfinder inc. flask effect is a DOWNSIDE for Olroth's ward flask. Vaal flasks are niche, but ultimately, making them only drain 20 charges = less effect of the big drain-all-the-charges flasks.

The idea is to make a flask like Kiara's Determination, Dying Sun, or Cinderswallow Urn sustainable in hideout.